Podcast: The agentic era on marketplaces - what most sellers get wrong

July 15, 2026

Reading Time - 2 min

Kamelia Pusheva

Author

The ecommerce funnel isn’t shrinking — it’s collapsing.

In this episode, Lucas Bassa (Marketplaces Product Lead at Channable) sits down with Imco van Elk (Head of Marketplaces at Follo) to unpack how conversational and agentic commerce are reshaping the future of marketplaces.

Consumers are no longer spending hours browsing category pages and comparing endless listings. Increasingly, discovery starts inside AI tools like ChatGPT, Gemini, and Amazon Rufus, where shoppers ask contextual questions and receive narrowed-down recommendations instantly.
Together, Lucas and Imco explore why marketplaces still dominate the transaction layer, how Amazon Rufus is changing product discovery behavior, and why sellers need to rethink optimization entirely. The era of keyword stuffing and “quick & dirty” marketplace onboarding is fading fast. Structured product data, contextual titles, complete attributes, and AI-readable imagery are becoming essential for visibility.

The episode also dives into how AI compresses the traditional funnel into just a few high-intent interactions, why conversational recommendations convert at significantly higher rates, and what sellers can do today to become “Rufus-ready.”

Key Takeaways

The funnel collapse: Why consumers are moving from endless browsing to AI-guided product discovery in just a few interactions
The Rufus effect: What Amazon’s AI shopping assistant signals for the future of marketplace search and recommendations
Beyond keyword stuffing: How sellers should rethink product feeds, attributes, and titles for conversational discovery
AI can “see” your listings now: Why contextual imagery and complete product data are becoming essential for visibility

Learn how to optimize, grow and scale on marketplaces with Channable

Listen to the complete episode:

Read transcript

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:05:09

Lucas

So we're talking about e-commerce. It's, it's a bit of a buzzword.

00:00:05:11 - 00:00:22:17

Imco

I think it's good to make, maybe, a difference between agentic and conversational, right? And so

agentic is where the AI actually buys it for you. It can be, for example, based on a price trigger.

Conversational is when you use AI, you wish, for example, that you update.

00:00:22:19 - 00:00:35:04

Lucas

You as a seller, you want to be a suggested product in both those, those searches, both those

conversations. Amazon as Rufus, the conversion is quite high, right?

00:00:35:06 - 00:00:55:11

Imco

Yeah. So up to 60% now. And it's great, for sure, change. So that's, that's quite a bit. And they

expect to do like, like 30, 40, 50 billion, you know, additional revenue because of Rufus. And

more and more people are moving to Rufus. So if you ask me, it's a matter of time before there

will be advertised...

00:00:55:11 - 00:01:01:09

Lucas

Positions themselves as a seller. How do you think you should prepare now?

00:01:01:11 - 00:01:07:01

Imco

I would say marketplaces are still the preferred shopping destination for a lot of consumers.

00:01:18:14 - 00:01:34:20

Lucas

All right. Welcome to a new episode of Marketplaces Growth the Podcast. I'm joined by Imco

from Volo Agency and we're talking about agentic commerce, conversational commerce, and

how it affects the marketplaces world. Yeah, Imco, introduce yourself.

00:01:34:22 - 00:01:58:19

Imco

Yeah. So my name is Imco. I work at Volo as head of marketplaces. So, basically, in a nutshell,

my responsibilities are the development of our services in quite a broad way, which agentic

conversational was definitely one of them. But also AI developments, those kinds of things to

really serve our clients best, for a little over 12 years from our marketplace period.

00:01:58:19 - 00:02:05:13

Imco

So I've been around them, and I'm still on the board. So I guess that says a lot about

marketplaces as well.

00:02:05:13 - 00:02:21:23

Lucas

Yeah. Yeah, that's and that's also hopefully because of all the new developments with agentic

commerce. So maybe, before we dive into the topic, what's the last thing you ordered on a

marketplace? What was it on the marketplace?

00:02:22:00 - 00:02:30:07

Imco

So, it was, it's actually clothes. Yeah, yeah, on About You. So, yeah, definitely a marketplace.

00:02:30:09 - 00:02:34:08

Lucas

And did you use any AI to, to guide you through the process?

00:02:34:10 - 00:02:43:23

Imco

I did actually, for the sizing. So they have a very strange sizing chart, and it was able to figure it

out. So I just asked.

00:02:44:00 - 00:02:45:14

Lucas

Okay. That's, I haven't, it's...

00:02:45:14 - 00:02:47:18

Imco

Perfectly, so good. Did work and...

00:02:47:18 - 00:02:50:06

Lucas

It was not native on About You? It's you, you...

00:02:50:06 - 00:03:00:04

Imco

Needed, you said. No, actually I had to go off-platform. So the sizing chart was a bit of obscurity,

like, "Hey, I normally have this and this size. What should I pick?"

00:03:00:05 - 00:03:22:17

Lucas

Yeah, a big opportunity for About You, I would say. Okay, nice. And, so we're talking about

e-commerce. It's, it's a bit of a buzzword in the space. Somehow, you know, I'm also in

marketplaces. It affects marketplaces quite a bit. Why do you think, why do you think that is?

Why do you think it's so closely tied to marketplaces?

00:03:22:19 - 00:03:48:12

Imco

I would say marketplaces are still the preferred shopping destination for a lot of consumers. And

therefore, anything that impacts, let's say, conversion, discoverability, etc., also impacts

marketplaces. I think it's good to make maybe a difference between agentic and conversational,

yeah, right? So agentic is where the AI actually buys it for you—it can be, for example, based on

a price trigger.

00:03:48:14 - 00:04:09:15

Imco

So if changing a discount, it automatically buys it for you. Conversational is when you use AI. So

most people use, for example, ChatGPT like, "Hey, I'm looking for a gift for my nephew. He's

three years old, he likes these and these types of games. Can you recommend something for

me?" Yeah, yeah, I think it's good to...

00:04:09:17 - 00:04:27:06

Lucas

Yeah, so, and, and I think when this all started, one of the big, big splashes was that a chatbot

would allow you to also make the purchase on, on ChatGPT, so during that conversation, and

now they backed away from that.

00:04:27:10 - 00:04:28:02

Imco

Yeah.

00:04:28:04 - 00:04:30:02

Lucas

Why do you think they did that?

00:04:30:04 - 00:04:58:02

Imco

Yeah. So apparently, the discovery phase and the checkout phase, it's, it's different. It's a

different ballgame. Yeah. Of course, like, I don't know the exact reasons, but what I can imagine

is that it works very well for discovery. But you also get in a rabbit hole quite quickly. And you do

want to have options, but you don't want to have too many options.

00:04:58:04 - 00:05:21:12

Imco

So there's, there's a lot of variables here which you have to take into consideration—making a

seamless checkout, etc., etc. Which, which marketplaces or retailers in general have spent

hours and hours on to optimize it. So it's definitely different from just implementing, I think it was

a Stripe plugin, and let's go now.

00:05:21:14 - 00:05:54:11

Lucas

Yeah. And while I, we just talked about it, so the, the option is definitely, I recognize that myself

as a consumer. And it's also funny because I think Amazon is always, for, for Dutch people, it's

regarded as sort of like, "Why is this such a popular channel?" because it looks quite old school.

But I remember our sort of head of CRO at my last job telling me that Amazon is basically

running the most split tests, the most AB tests out of all web shops.

00:05:54:13 - 00:06:14:01

Lucas

So it works just very well, and it's not something you can then copy, I can get behind. So

Amazon then just closed the door for, for LLMs and they said, "We're doing it ourselves." Do you

think that's a good decision?

00:06:14:03 - 00:06:45:14

Imco

I think it is a good decision. I think it is a good decision, but it will definitely... as if more people

will move towards LLMs in general for, for their discovery phase there. Maybe the checkout

shouldn't be on, on the LLM itself, but should maybe be on the marketplace still. But I think

what's, what we see happening is—and this is for Google and for marketplaces, right? So it

starts at the LLM and then it moves towards Google or moves towards the marketplace. So

people are still discovering products through ChatGPT, and then they move towards Amazon or

bol, and then they use the, the tool of, of the marketplace itself to find the product, the best

fitting product, etc.

00:06:47:13 - 00:07:29:15

Lucas

Yeah, because we're talking about Amazon as Rufus, it's quite big in the US already. So you're

saying you're basically doing discovery in an LLM like Gemini, ChatGPT, you name them, and

then you go to the marketplace for checkouts, and probably you're dealing with AI in that

process again.

00:07:29:19 - 00:07:54:19

Imco

Yeah. So this is based on assumptions, right? So before people shoot me on this, how I think,

or, or how I see it at least, is you have some sort of high-level... Yeah, we were just chatting a

little bit, like let's take an air fryer, for example, right? So you have high-level, "What size for a

family of four? What do I need?" Like, like those types of things. "Do I need the 12 programs on

the air fryer specifically, or would I be fine with, with the four?" Which I would say is, is high-level

research. I think that's done in a chatbot or whatever you're using. Then you move to the

marketplace, and there you go more in-depth.

00:07:54:19 - 00:08:16:03

Imco

So, you know, okay, I need an air fryer, I need six liters, I need four programs. These are the

programs I need. I don't need the cheapest one, a little bit more sustainable, maybe. So you go

a little bit more into depth, and then you have Rufus or the shopping agent for bol soon to

recommend you, let's say, 3 to 5 products.

00:08:36:09 - 00:08:39:17

Imco

And I think you choose out of those products.

00:08:39:19 - 00:09:05:05

Lucas

Yeah. So there's essentially, you're saying the product research happens in the LLM and the

purchase research in the marketplace. But for you as a seller, you want to be a suggested

product in both those, those searches, both those conversations. Are they, are they different at

all? Like, to me, it sounds like the last one, the purchase decision, is more, "Are you in stock?

Can you deliver on time? Is your price right?" And the product research is more on the, you

know, the type of product or...

00:09:12:23 - 00:09:38:16

Imco

Yeah. Yeah. So, ideally, you are, of course, in both the customer journeys, because if people

start recognizing you, then they start buying. That's why. So marketplaces as a standalone

channel... it sounds maybe strange from someone that's doing marketplaces for, for a long time.

But I would always advise also having your own store, for example, not just your brand.

00:09:38:16 - 00:10:03:07

Imco

Sure. Yeah. Yeah, you can be found in both. And you know, who knows, maybe at some point

Amazon will open up for, for those LLMs again, we don't know. But ideally, yes, you want to be

found in both customer journeys. But I do think that there is still research done on the

marketplace. So basically, we call it the collapse of the funnel.

00:10:03:09 - 00:10:26:19

Imco

Where you would normally go to a marketplace, you will look for, you will type "air fryer," then

research yourself, you open reviews, customer questions, etc. And we all know how the process

goes. I think that like, that quite tedious process is now down to a chatbot, but it doesn't still...

So Amazon knows you really well.

00:10:26:21 - 00:10:44:24

Imco

So if you then go to Amazon, use Rufus to identify, because you know the requirements

basically that you have for the air fryer. And then Rufus can recommend the best air fryer that

fits your specific situation. Because what you want is not necessarily... but I want to ask, there's

all this difference right now.

00:10:45:01 - 00:11:08:07

Lucas

And it, and it then narrows down the whole search. Because now with search, indeed, it's now

keyword-driven. That's also for, I feel that there's also a big chunk of business for Amazon in the

fact that it's keyword-driven, because there's just such a wide amount of products on there that if

you, if you're looking for an air fryer, you'll get thousands of products.

00:11:08:12 - 00:11:32:09

Lucas

But if you're looking for a double-decker air fryer with 12 programs specifically that ships in the

next week, you're still looking at hundreds of products. So I think then there's an advertising side

to that, right? Where there's it, it takes quite a bit of searching to find the product you're looking

for if you're very specific, and all those searches give impressions through advertisements.

00:11:32:11 - 00:11:48:16

Lucas

So that side is also, you know, something Amazon is considering, bol is considering, all

marketplaces are considering. How do you see that change now that, now that they have their

own marketplace AI as well?

00:11:48:18 - 00:11:50:23

Imco

And then specifically the advertising? Yeah.

00:11:50:23 - 00:12:05:01

Lucas

Because we're talking about Rufus now, but you mentioned bol is, is going with something

similar, right? How do you think that that ties into advertising? Because they make it easier to

find what you're looking for, essentially.

00:12:05:03 - 00:12:42:23

Imco

Yeah. So I think there's at least, the things that come up is that, so, advertising for the page

becomes more expensive. And maybe there will be more positions on a product page. And then

I would say it is a matter of time before there is room for advertising, obviously. But I, I would

say I do think that as soon as the advertising is there within Rufus, maybe, or within specific

queries, you don't know, it would be fairly high-converting, right? Because you are, if this is the

air fryer market and then you, you narrow down, then this part is what you're advertising on,

which is of course different than advertising on "air fryer" in general. Yeah. So I do see that that

might be a high-converting audience. And more and more people are moving to Rufus.

00:13:02:21 - 00:13:08:02

Imco

So if you ask me, it's a matter of time before there, there will be advertising positions there as

well. Yeah.

00:13:08:04 - 00:13:33:03

Lucas

And ultimately, it's, it's still in their best interest to, to get you the product that you're looking for

quicker, right? But I guess for, for sellers... so that's a, that's something interesting as well that,

that ChatGPT announced advertisements into their, LLM, then they removed the checkout. So

you're doing the discovery phase, you're potentially looking at advertisements there as well.

00:13:33:05 - 00:13:53:14

Lucas

As a brand, you want to stand out there so you're considered, and then you're taken along for

the ride on the marketplace where you then also have to, first be right, if your, your preferred

channel as a consumer is a marketplace. It stops there if the brands stop there, and then you

need to pop up there as well.

00:13:53:20 - 00:14:14:10

Lucas

And if that all is going to be both organic—and you mentioned a few attributes that become

more important—and also paid, it's essentially sort of like the funnel is split in half almost. How

do you think as a seller, how do you think you should prepare now for, for this sort of...

00:14:14:12 - 00:14:39:17

Imco

Yeah. So maybe it's good to be aware. So now you would have, let's say, two touchpoints, right?

So LLM and then marketplace. I think so... so I read a couple of researches, usually clients that

use them to research, they convert within 48 hours, which is like a very, very good conversion of

time, and you use way less touchpoints.

00:14:39:17 - 00:14:44:05

Imco

So normally a consumer uses, I believe, it's like ten plus touchpoints.

00:14:44:05 - 00:14:45:24

Lucas

Blogs, marketplaces...

00:14:46:01 - 00:15:19:05

Imco

Or multiple ads or whatever it can be, can be anything. And with chatbots, it starts from

significantly less. So it does definitely impact, yeah, how you would prepare as a seller to, to

make sure you're still relevant. I would say there's a big shift from, from keyword-driven to

conversational, right? So if you've been around for marketplaces, you've seen the "backpack,

backpack for kids, backpack for adults, backpack, black backpack," like the, the keyword

stuffing.

00:15:19:07 - 00:15:38:05

Imco

And now I would say you're definitely moving towards a, let's say, hybrid, right? So you don't

have to make it a full sentence, but it's going to be something like "backpack perfect for

traveling, waterproof," like way more on the, on the actual use case.

00:15:38:10 - 00:15:39:20

Lucas

Yeah. More context-based.

00:15:39:21 - 00:16:15:06

Imco

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Then I would say images. So, what we still see quite a bit is images,

packshots, then you space on there and let's go. And, like, I'm not saying they, they're not going

to work anymore, but AI tools are going to basically scan images as well. So a simple example:

if you sell a water bottle that is, that suits the, the cup holder, for example, in the car, make sure

that the image is showing the product in a good position in the car, like in...

00:16:15:09 - 00:16:17:07

Lucas

The context again, yeah. But then visual.

00:16:17:07 - 00:16:23:15

Imco

Yeah. So it's not rocket science, right? So basically, does the USP match with the image? Yeah.

00:16:23:17 - 00:16:52:17

Lucas

Yeah, it's not rocket science, but I think it's easy to, to just forget about this because you're

thinking, "I'm optimizing for AI, it's still, you know, technical, robotic," but it moves towards a real

person, like in the sense that it looks at images to, to make a decision. Because images in

general are getting a lot more prominence in, in targeting also on that, on Google.

00:16:52:19 - 00:17:03:06

Lucas

So that is quite interesting. And you're saying you should not just make like the standard

infographic images that we see a lot on marketplaces.

00:17:03:08 - 00:17:26:24

Imco

Yeah. So I think there's definitely a place for infographics, right? But we are definitely moving to

a more visual, yeah, visual-focused strategy, if you will. There used to always be a saying in the

marketplace community, I would say basically, but so text is for robots and images are for

humans. But that's like, that, that's changing, right? So text is for robots, images are for humans

and robots. So it should be very clear. One image, one USP, and it should reflect the USP that

you're looking for. And of course, an infographic, especially for more technical products, it still

has its place. Yeah.

00:17:43:05 - 00:18:06:22

Lucas

Yeah, interesting. Yeah. So, so we're, we're doing a lot of, digging into our creators more and

how you can use that to sort of automate this process. Because lifestyle images, ultimately, it's,

it's expensive. Not all brands have the capacity to get lifestyle images. And with AI becoming so

good, so, so fast, you can now do that by robots.

00:18:06:24 - 00:18:21:18

Lucas

So then we'll, we'll end up in a, in a time where your images are made by robots, interpreted by

robots. And then, you know, do you think that's where does that end? If you, if you can put on

your, your, your...

00:18:21:20 - 00:18:23:08

Imco

I will look at my...

00:18:23:10 - 00:18:23:24

Lucas

In the glass...

00:18:24:01 - 00:18:24:08

Imco

Yeah.

00:18:24:11 - 00:18:25:23

Lucas

Orb.

00:18:26:00 - 00:18:57:11

Imco

Yeah. Where does it end? I think, I don't, I don't think there's really an end to it. I think who is

going to show the use case best, yeah, and who's going to prompt the best? Because there's

prompting and prompting, right? Well, you know from experience as well. So we also developed

a lot of tools in-house to generate these types of images and enrich the images via AI content,

like textual content, like we've done it for two years.

00:18:57:11 - 00:19:24:06

Imco

None of this investment is doing that. But I do think that it's... so in my vision, it's always going to

be 80% AI, 20% human. Yeah. So AI could do the bulk, and it's definitely a good starting point,

but it's not the endpoint. The last 20% is done by humans because they understand

best—there's different strategies. And I'm not saying AI is never going to get there.

00:19:24:08 - 00:19:38:09

Imco

But for now, in this situation, and I think it's safe to say for at least the coming, I don't know, let's

say two years maybe, the last 20% should be done by humans to, to get it perfect. Yeah, yeah.

00:19:38:11 - 00:20:00:23

Lucas

Yeah. And it also applies on, on... so that applies to the creation side, where you can't just put it

in AI and then, then think it will work out. If you, if you go on any marketplace, you look for

"token limit exceeded," for example, you get a bunch of products. They just never refreshed

their, their token limits, and their titles are now all, you know, "restore your token balance."

00:20:00:23 - 00:20:21:12

Lucas

I mean, that's, that's a prime example of why you need a human in the loop, as they, as they

say, right? Okay. So, so we talked about conversational commerce and how that funnel is

moving away from, you know, keyword-based to that one conversational moment. A lot of these

developments are sort of US-first, right?

00:20:21:12 - 00:20:39:14

Lucas

We had checkouts with Etsy. Now we have ChatGPT checkouts with Carrefour, a French

marketplace. Why do you think it's, it's so slow to, to pick up in, in Europe?

00:20:39:16 - 00:20:45:15

Imco

So why are these developments coming to Europe so slow, or why adopting so slow?

00:20:45:17 - 00:21:05:15

Lucas

Yeah. So, yeah, maybe that's, that's the first question. Do you think it's just about these, you

know, digital giants, the Shopifys, that they're all very big in the US and that is sort of their test

environment before they roll out to Europe? Or is there something else that's, that's causing the

slow adoption here?

00:21:05:17 - 00:21:35:02

Imco

I would say so, US is the home base of most of these companies, and it's a relatively easy...

right? It's a huge amount of people, same language. Yeah. Okay, so there's differences

obviously between, I don't know, Portland and Miami, yeah, yeah, slightly, but there's a lot of

similarities. If you look at Europe as a landscape, generically speaking, there's a lot of

differences already between the Netherlands and Belgium, which are literally like next to each

other.

00:21:35:04 - 00:21:57:12

Imco

So I think that's, that's the reason why these types of developments usually are US-first, and

also makes it a bit more difficult for these subsequently to, to actually move to the EU because...

so there's different payment systems, different logistics providers, different name it. So you have

to take all these things into consideration.

00:21:57:17 - 00:22:25:12

Lucas

Yeah, that's a, that's a valid point actually. And that's also what you've, what I've encountered

with sellers that want to expand. You know, very simple, very simple on paper, but language

barriers, culture barriers—it's, it's hard to, to just overcome them. But it's, it's coming our way,

that's for sure, basically. And, so you mentioned a few things that you can do today to prepare.

00:22:25:18 - 00:22:36:05

Lucas

We always have the, the, the golden nuggets segment. You already mentioned a few. So you

mentioned focus on images, don't neglect your images. What was the first one you mentioned?

00:22:36:05 - 00:22:50:12

Imco

It's, so basically from keywords to conversation, yeah. So, yeah, so more context indeed, then

images. So make sure your images are reflecting what you're trying to, to, to show the

customer.

00:22:50:12 - 00:22:52:00

Lucas

Yeah, yeah.

00:22:52:02 - 00:23:17:06

Imco

And then I would say last, definitely not least, is of course feed management. Yeah. So, what

you saw from the ChatGPT feed, that's already getting more and more extensive. I would say

assume that feeds for marketing specifically also get more extensive now. Plus, what we still

see a lot for existing sellers as well is they do a quick and dirty onboarding, right? So they get a

lot of attributes... I'm pretty sure you are familiar with this. But things like, okay, so ingredients

usually is mandatory, make sure to be specific. You have, for example, special features in

Amazon—make sure it's populated. Make sure it's, it's actually describing the product as it is.

So those types of attributes are becoming more and more important.

00:23:41:03 - 00:23:46:19

Imco

Yeah, a bigger level of marketplace. And that's where I see more tools like Channable definitely

come in.

00:23:46:22 - 00:24:13:17

Lucas

Yeah. Yes, in, we recognize that a lot. You can bypass, for example, ingredients attributes by

just putting in a forward slash. And then if you, if you do that the first time around, the chances

of you going back and adding the right ingredients are very low. We see it happen a lot. So

indeed. So two things you're saying: feeds are important and, and sort of the, the completeness

of your feeds.

00:24:13:19 - 00:24:37:01

Lucas

It's, my, my colleague said it on our partner event, like, "Feeds are sexy again." Channable

started... well, it's still a feed management tool to some extent, but we're doing a lot more now.

But it's, it's interesting to see that it goes back to the essence of e-commerce, which is product

data and having your product data top-notch.

00:24:37:03 - 00:24:45:09

Lucas

But, but we're still, you know, you're also saying essentially that setting up a marketplace

channel becomes more work.

00:24:45:11 - 00:25:09:17

Imco

Definitely. So I think, yeah, so times for quick and dirty are definitely done. And I think that this is

also where AI comes in, right? So as already briefly mentioned, we have a lot of in-house

developed AI tools, yeah, so image generation, textual, but also for feed management to, to

populate or at least identify what you're missing.

00:25:09:19 - 00:25:36:12

Imco

So what we have, for example, currently working on is, is literally like, "How can you become

Rufus-ready?" Yeah. So it's, you put in the ASIN and then it analyzes all the information on

Amazon and it tells... it gives you a score. Scores are, of course, based on... yeah, yeah, but for

Amazon, showed us, and that gives you really a good idea.

00:25:36:14 - 00:25:59:22

Imco

Okay, so you know how, how Rufus-ready are you? What gaps are showing? What attributes?

What... is your title reflecting the best practices and etc. types of things? And I think that that

would also be my advice for anyone working in actually any business. But yeah, for

marketplaces specifically, dive into these topics.

00:25:59:24 - 00:26:16:23

Imco

Get familiar with AI and then you can really do a lot. And then, yeah, it makes a lot of sense to,

to scale to these marketplaces and then do it efficiently via AI to multiple marketplaces and

really get the full market basically.

00:26:17:00 - 00:26:45:15

Lucas

Yeah. So you're essentially using AI to help feed the AI. I mean, and that's also how we are, we

work right now in bringing more AI to the tool. Because you can make, you can make... it's

becoming more complex, but because you have the tools to make it less complex, it kind of

evens out. But you still... the sort of the, the bottom line is still you need to make sure you take

the time and go for first-time right instead of the quick and dirty. You mentioned something there

as well. So, so I set up... I'm collecting from text generation, I think that's all very tangible. So if

you're, if you're selling on, on multiple marketplaces—well, let's first look into Rufus, because

that, you mentioned Rufus, right? You're really focusing on becoming Rufus-ready.

00:27:14:24 - 00:27:39:00

Lucas

Yeah. You also mentioned bol is going to launch something similar to, to Rufus. So it's, it's a, it's

a trend that's in, that's happening in the markets. How do you... so how do you, sellers interact

with Rufus? I've, I've, I've seen that you can export Rufus conversation data in Amazon, for

example, to learn from sources.

00:27:39:02 - 00:27:49:07

Imco

So as of right now, at least as far as I'm aware, it's not in the API, for example. So you can't get

actual notebooks...

00:27:49:09 - 00:27:50:21

Lucas

Not just, not yet.

00:27:50:21 - 00:27:57:07

Imco

Most likely, definitely. What you can do is, Amazon uses Anthropic, so... yeah.

00:27:57:09 - 00:27:58:14

Lucas

Yeah.

00:27:58:16 - 00:28:24:01

Imco

So if you really dive into the data a little bit, then you can reconstruct basically what kind of what

clients can ask. And otherwise, it's, it also makes total sense—you just go to Amazon, act like a

consumer or ask, I don't know, friends or family or whoever. Go to Amazon. "You're looking for

this specific product, what do you type?" And then see if you show up, right? And then start

optimizing from there. There's no, like there's no, "get rich quick" scheme. There's no... if you

just launched a product, stick with the basics, you know? Get product reviews, get sales, make

good ads, etc., etc. From there, as soon as your, your product is a little bit, yeah, set in the

market, then from there you can look into, "Okay, now I want to focus on optimizing for Rufus."

00:28:53:11 - 00:29:14:11

Lucas

Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. First things first, ultimately. Okay, I think that's already quite a bit

of tangible advice. How, how big is Rufus now in, in, in Europe? Is it, do you think, do you think

it still needs some work before it becomes what it is in the US?

00:29:14:13 - 00:29:36:08

Imco

Yeah, I don't really have a split between US and EU numbers. They are pushing quite heavily,

obviously. So more and more of these broadbands become available via Rufus. Yeah, don't pin

me on these numbers, but I think it's like 1 in 95, do you know, things are already generated for

AI...

00:29:36:12 - 00:29:40:11

Lucas

Crazy amount. And conversation, the, the conversion is quite high, right?

00:29:40:11 - 00:29:54:10

Imco

Yeah. So up to 60% now. That that's going to change, so that's, that's quite a bit. And they

expect to do like, like 30, 40, 50 billion, yeah, additional revenue because of Rufus. So they're

there...

00:29:54:10 - 00:29:55:07

Lucas

Because it makes shopping easier.

00:29:55:07 - 00:30:04:10

Imco

Yeah. So they had a forecast for, let's say they are going to 900 billion, yeah, you expect to add

50 billion on the, on those 900 billion.

00:30:04:10 - 00:30:06:06

Lucas

Crazy.

00:30:06:08 - 00:30:11:16

Imco

Because they have Rufus, which converts way better than the traditional search. Oh, it's crazy.

00:30:11:19 - 00:30:37:20

Lucas

And you mentioned one thing that, that I think is, is also a key, key advice to, to sellers listening,

is sort of becoming the consumer. I've noticed that in myself. You know, if you're working on

selling products, it's quite easy to focus on, you know, your side, Seller Central. But it's,

especially now with these, with the discovery phase becoming a conversation, have that

conversation also. Not have others or have colleagues... I mean, in product management we do

a lot of user testing, right? We have people experience something and we learn from them

because they're not biased. Do the same essentially browsing for products. See what you find,

what you, what you're not finding. Yeah, and also see what, what sort of, how you have that

conversation.

00:31:01:21 - 00:31:05:23

Lucas

I think that's just a very practical bit of advice.

00:31:06:00 - 00:31:30:08

Imco

And I think be, like, not being biased is key here, right? Which you mentioned. It's really... I

would, for me at least, it's very difficult that if I'm looking for a specific... so I have client

information, and let's stick with the air fryers, yeah, now we're at it. It's really hard to not move

towards that specific air fryer, right? So maybe ask, I don't know, colleagues that don't work with

the client like, "Hey, look it up," and then move from there because otherwise it gets really

difficult. You're going to steer it towards the air fryer that you're looking for.

00:31:42:02 - 00:32:02:04

Lucas

Nice. Okay, I think, that it wraps it up. We have a last bit segment, it's a few, few quickfire

questions. I had a few questions I wanted to ask you, but, you can, you can skip one if I'm, if I'm

asking a great question. So, Gemini or...

00:32:02:06 - 00:32:03:04

Imco

Gemini.

00:32:03:06 - 00:32:06:15

Lucas

Why?

00:32:06:17 - 00:32:18:21

Imco

I do prefer Gemini because it's connected into the Google suite quite a bit. Yeah, I think that's,

that's more supportive for me. Now, Amazon or bol?

00:32:18:23 - 00:32:20:04

Imco

Yeah, yeah.

00:32:20:06 - 00:32:21:01

Lucas

As a consumer.

00:32:21:01 - 00:32:28:17

Imco

I actually... Okay. So this... I'm not going to, I don't want to avoid the question. Yeah, I see

Amazon for FMCG goods.

00:32:28:19 - 00:32:29:04

Lucas

Oh, yeah.

00:32:29:04 - 00:32:36:00

Imco

Yeah, I do then. I do still prefer bol over the... yeah, a little bigger purchase.

00:32:36:00 - 00:32:42:23

Lucas

Yeah. And I was going to ask Temu or Shein, but I'll skip that for you.

00:32:43:00 - 00:32:52:04

Imco

To be honest, I bought maybe two products on either platform. I did, like... I actually never go to

research.

00:32:52:06 - 00:32:52:19

Lucas

Research.

00:32:52:19 - 00:32:57:15

Imco

I read for research purposes, and other than that, I skip those. Okay.

00:32:57:17 - 00:33:19:02

Lucas

Well, thanks for coming on, on the podcast. It was a good conversation. I think this is a topic

where probably in two months' time and a half, it's going to be outdated, but yeah, yeah, it's

hard to update. Yeah, yeah, thank you for listening. Next show is on Amazon DSP. Is that

something you're familiar with?

00:33:19:04 - 00:33:23:07

Imco

You are familiar with it in the sense that, so we do serve clients, but it's not...

00:33:23:09 - 00:33:41:01

Lucas

It's quite a niche topic. Yeah, we're talking to Assembly from Trivium about Amazon DSP, which

for me... I've done a lot of Amazon, it was also filled with new insights I didn't know that much

about. Okay, thanks again and yeah, well, maybe till next time.

00:33:41:03 - 00:33:53:21

Imco

Definitely. Thanks, too.

Kamelia Pusheva

Author

Kamelia Pusheva is a Demand Generation Manager at Channable, passionate about building marketing that balances strategy, creativity, and impact. She focuses on demand generation initiatives that educate and engage B2B SaaS audiences, collaborating closely with brand, product marketing, and sales to turn ideas into campaigns that drive measurable growth.

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